Black Love- ft: Debra Elana

How can we not talk about Black love for an episode that is on Valentines day during BLACK HISTORY MONTH?! I want to encourage you, if you are or are not a part of the black community, the discussion of black love is for everyone. Debra Elana is back on the show and truly speaks from her own experience as a single adult black woman in her 30's. We hope as you  listen you not only learn but build connection to the struggles of the black community and overcoming limiting stereo types.

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Transcript

0:03

You are listening to working through It, a Story Time podcast with a mental health lens. Well, hello there and welcome back to working through it. My name is Sierra and I'm your. For those of you who are listening in for the first time, welcome. This podcast is all about story times where we talk about people's stories. People just like you and me, and the journeys that they've gone through, through the hardest times in their lives, and we get to hear all about it and learn how they got through it and came out the other side. I love it because we also add that mental health lens. I'm a licensed the. I serve the state of Florida through my private practice, hopeful heart counseling, where I specialize in trauma and grief and help people every day who are struggling with that. Um, and so I wanted to create a space just like this where we could come together and talk. This episode is special, and before you turn this off for some reason, if you think that it's not relevant to you, even if it's not part of your journey, I wanna encourage you to listen fully so you can hear the journey of someone else. This month is obviously February, we're talking about love, and it's also Black History Month. I could not pass up the opportunity to be able to. Tune into the black community with the lens of black love. And so I'm excited because my next guest is Debra Elena. You know her from the first podcast episode. If you haven't listened to that one, you definitely shared because it's actually our highest rated episode that we've ever had. So, pretty excited to have her back on the show. She is a dear friend of mine. Um, and I wanna make this disclaimer, Deborah El. Does not claim to speak for the entire black community, however much of what she shares is echoed throughout the black community and the people of color. So I wanted to make sure that I bring that distinction, uh, before we go any further. But she really, we had a good time talking and I learned so much, and I hope that you will listen in, feel encouraged, and also examine your own heart and your own thoughts, uh, as a space to. With that. No further ado. Let's get into it. Debra, Elena. Hey, I'm so glad you're here. Me too. It is a very special month. I'm very excited because it's one, it's Black History Month excited. It's exciting times, and it's also. You know, I'm not a big fan of Valentine's Day, but you know, it's the Month of Love. Oh, I love Valentine, Valentine's Day. You do? I do. I. Um, what do you like about it? I, well, I've decided I think like back in like maybe 2004 or five or three, I don't know. Mm-hmm. I said I was gonna force myself and just enjoy it and I started to really enjoy just giving little things to folks on Valentine's Day. Like I, whenever I had students, or now I have students again. Mm-hmm. getting them a little. You know, a little snack and a pencil. Yeah. And this, I don't, I like to celebrate the love thing and just to make sure that they know, hey, even though I will like rarely say it, I do care about you. I do appreciate you. Yeah. Little gifts are sweet. Um, so Okay. I can get into it. Like, I'm, I'm making a gift for my, um, My castmates and the play that I'm in right now. Um, woo. It's give us a plug, huh? Oh, I'm in Nina Simone for a woman here at the Public Theater in Santa. Yes, you are. And who do you play? Nina Headliner This, I mean, I think that deserves, thank you. We was my first lead. I'm very excited. But not to too, I wasn't trying to do my own horn. No, but I mean, let's toot the horn. And while we're shooting the horn, let's segue into, you know, we talked a little bit before the show started, um, about what we would wanna talk about, something that's on your heart, something that you feel like you're passionate about or that you're kind of going through. Obviously this is us sharing stories, that's the whole purpose of the podcast. Yes. And you mentioned Black Love. Yeah, I would love to talk about that. Let's do it in your eyes, is it a challenge? Is it. Where in Black love in society, first of all, we know that there's a lot of issues with the way that black love is behave. Absolutely. In the media. In Yeah, a hundred percent. Whether it's the listen, the depth of a female, a black female. Mm-hmm. of her skin. Tone is usually lighter, Uhhuh And it not being showcasing somebody who is a deeper toned Absolut. And there's rare occurrences, not rare, but oftentimes, especially like in comedies and stuff, the relationship, the, the female is mute. If she's not mute, she has an attitude or she says nothing at all. And the man leads. And I mean that's in a lot of cases for all races, you know, if the movie is, is male-centered, which. Typically the, the woman, the wife, the partner is just a silent, uh, trophy piece, um mm-hmm. And so those, that sort of thing. You don't see a lot of good black relationships. um, that have a good, like solid. This is, this is health. This is healthy Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's a lot of abusive and a lot of, um, the guy is somehow trash and the girl, even though she's silent and hasn't done anything, still low key trash, um, you know, yeah. How was Black love portrayed to you? Well, you know, growing up, um, the, the image of, of love and marriage and all that kind of stuff came strictly from TV cuz my parents got divorced when I was young. Um, and so my dad didn't live with us and so I didn't have like the image of like what I, what. what I thought was a happy couple turned I found out as my adult life, that my dad had come to visit cuz he was stationed in a different place than where we were, we're military. He was stationed somewhere different than where we lived. And he came down to visit one time and I thought he just came to visit us because, you know, he loved us Smith. That's whatever. He actually, I found out as an adult, came with a, with divorce papers. Um, so. And so, so for me as a child, there wasn't much black love to be seen. Um, I will say in my tween, you know, young teen years, there was a movie called Jason's Lyric as Alan Payne and Jada Pink it j when she was still pink it before she was Pinkett Smith. Um, and. I don't even really know what the movie was about. Now I think about it, but I just thought that that was just so idyllic and they just seemed so beautiful. Of course, they're both light-skinned, um, Mm-hmm. of course she had curly hair. Yeah. And whatever, but they were black people and they were on tv and they just fell in love and had a, a legitimate romance through tragedy. Yeah. Now, unfortunately, in, especially in the nineties, Black folks can't have nothing without the tragedy. It's either gotta be, you know mm-hmm. slapstick, comedy, you know, like Booty call or whatever. Yeah. Or which is a great movie. Or or, it's gotta be like Jason's lyric where it's a, where it's a actually a very nice love story thrown in the middle of. Gang drama, you know, gun drama, whatever. Um, but for me, that movie was one where I was like, I wish I had a relationship like that where we just fell in love. We were just each other's safe space. And, um, that was that, you know? Um, yeah. Um, they were how cell got her groove back pain. I, man, I have a crush on Winston to this day. because just, just the idea of someone just seeing you as, oh no, but I think you're beautiful. Full stop. Yeah, that's it. I just, okay. I like you inside and out and I want to be with you. Those are things that I romanticize. Um, and it was good. Those were things rarely that you get to see. Um, black folks kind of do them and do them well. Now that movie, I don't know how critical acclaimed it was outside of the black, no um, sphere, but black folks love household. Oh, I love. It was good Yeah, I was gonna say, you know who honestly, one of, I dreamed that I married him when I, when I was younger girl. Oh, no, no, no. Sorry. Dwayne Wayne. Oh, absolutely. Yes. I loved him and I loved the way that he lived, Whitley and Dwayne, when they freaking at the altered that, yes, babe, please the wedding. I can't And she just said, I'm still good. I'm sorry by girl. Oh, that was everything. Yeah, I agree. Duane and Whitley. You know, they're funny. They're great. Dwayne Wayne was so cute to me. Dwayne Wayne Woo. Me too. Dwayne. Me too. Do you feel like that has impacted you today because of how the media. Like, what is it like for you now as a grown, grown black woman? As a grown black woman? I, you know, it's funny. When I was, um, in my teens and twenties, like late teens and twenties, um, I was specifically looking for, um, Hispanic or Asian. Guys, cause I didn't want them to look like my father or my stepfather. My dad is black, my stepfather was white. And so I didn't want anyone that I dated to look like either of them. And so I was mainly attracted to, yeah. Ben, also known as Latin Fever. I hope girl. I had, and listen, when I tell you I had it, that Latin fever w had me in a choke hold for a good 15 years or so. It'll get you, man those meet that, meet us with them. I eyebrow. there was okay. Yeah. I were better arches than me. I will, that's what, sorry. Like they, they had me back in elementary cuz there was a, there was a, a gap commercial and this little boy was in that commercial and I was like, well, you're it, that's it, that's, that's the future. But so, so I was always looking for that. Yeah. And so then I remember in like, maybe it was like 20 15, 20 16. Mm-hmm. there was a science teacher, um, That was at my school. He's a chemist. He was a, um, what was he? A kappa I think. Uh mm-hmm. black fraternity, you know. And so he was cute and he slid into my dms, uh, on Instagram. So I was like, oh my God, this is happening. Heart attack. And so like, we kind of talked just, just really briefly, and I think I said something about, um, dating outside of my race or something like that. Mm-hmm. And that turned him off. What was it that he didn't like? Well, I, I, two things. I think one, he didn't like that I was 32. Okay. But I think the other thing was he didn't like that I dated outside of my race. I'm so confused. Is he not you? He was black. The same race? Black. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, but he didn't like that in my experience, I looked for, was attracted to, was willing to date men. not who are not black, because for him it was black women only. Okay. And up until, and he was from Ohio. Yeah. Up until that point, I had not met a black dude who only liked black women, most black men that I know. Currently do not like black women, um, have stigmas about dating black women. And so that was weird for me and I was like, oh, well then, okay, well let's try it. And he wasn't interested and we just, it just fell off. Like he, I think opened the i the idea for me that there are black men who do like black women exclusively, who prefer darker complected women. And so while I haven't. Any yet? Very many. Yeah. Um, it is, it has been nice in my dating life when I have, um, dated like the last guy that I, that I dated mm-hmm. um, dated is a loose term, but the last guy went on a couple dates with loose last situation ship. Yeah. Or whatever, if you call it that. Uh, It was just nice because he just liked black people and he just was, was down for me because of me. And there was not a stigma attached to the fact that I was black. I wasn't exotic. I wasn't a test run. I wasn't, um, uh, well, let's just see how it goes. It was no, this woman is great and her blackness is a plus. Yes. As opposed to, A factor that we'll have to avoid, you know? Do you feel like that has been the case in other relationships? Absolutely. What you're saying was very pointed, so I'm guessing that's coming from experience. Yeah. I feel like most, at least in most of my. Experience, which is limited. I, I, I admit. Um, but most of my experience, it's always been, oh, you're black. Oh, oh, well, she's black. But that's okay. I mean, I, like, I go, I don't mind, you know, um, as if no, as if my, as if my don't person don't mind would don't, is something you should have to tolerate. Like, uh, okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I exist in this state. no. You know, but, um, not, okay. Yeah. But that's just, it is what it is. Like it's not. Those past experiences. Um, of course, of course. So that has been how I'm gonna, I wanna ask the question again. Go for it. Has that been more common than not that you've had? Because it sounds like it's, it's been a breath of fresh air to encounter somebody who doesn't think that way. Yeah. So does that mean it's more common to have it the other way where people, men have treated you as, It's Deborah, but yes. yes, Deborah. And that's, that is what it's, it's like it would be good, but it would be better if X, Y, and Z. That's what it's what I feel. Wow. And it may, it may not be that that's what they're thinking, but that's the way they've made me feel. So they've not done a good job of, of not thinking. Yeah. Um, I'm not communicating. Yeah. Not communicating that, you know, I'm happy with, I don't have a, it's never, your skin is not even a thought. Yes. Or your skin is a plus. Um, yes, those, that's what it should be. Yes. Um, but that's just not the, that's not been my experience. I think one dude I dated, um, it was like, oh yeah, I've always liked, I've always liked black women or whatever, which is cool. Mm-hmm. But I, I just didn't like we didn't, we didn't work. I didn't Yeah. You weren't vibing. No, we're friends. That's okay. It worked out better as friends, but still. Yeah. Well, there's nothing wrong with that. Just because someone likes you doesn't mean you gotta be with them. Absolutely. So it's just one of those words like, but it is nice to be treated. It is, yeah. Exactly the way that you should have been treated. It is nice to be treated like, I'm not ex exhaust like, like I'm just a person. Yes. And And you're just excited to be here with me and I just wanna be as excited as you are. And I think that's the reason why those last two didn't work out was like, well, you are happy to be here and I'm thankful that you're happy to be here. No disrespect. Yeah. But I'm not as happy as you are. So you should find someone who is as happy as you are to be here. You know what I mean? Right. Which is a whole nother. saga beans. Yeah, it is. Wow. Mm-hmm. So as far as like the media and how much that has impacted the way that people view lack love and and your personal experiences, do you think that that is something that's, A huge needs to be a bigger discussion. Do you feel like it's like, ah, not really, or I think, I think they're tr I think, I don't even know where it comes on, but there's a, a black love project that I have yet to watch. But I know I heard some kind of people commenting about it in a couple years back because most of the time it was a dark-skinned guy and a light-skinned girl, and they rarely had a dark-skinned woman. in the, in the hot seat, but it was just couples having conversations about their relationships. And I listened to, um, some podcasts where, you know, it's couples just talking about their relationships and it's usually, it's, it's a black couple. And so I have, I feel like, I feel like I see more, but I don't know if in if outside of of black spaces. Yeah. If there is conversation about black people, Being in a relationship and being in love. I think we do a good job in black spaces of kind of trying to show some nuance, but I don't know that it always is clear. In the, in the rest of the world, especially in the rest of America. We don't, they don't get it. I love, whenever I watch something, see something, meet people whose relationship I can see that there's depth, you know? Yeah. And I can see that they have, they know each other. on a level that's deeper than just, man, that was really cool, man. You look really pretty today. You know? You know, obviously you and I are multiracial and so I'm not saying that you have to only be with someone that is the same race as you, the same nationality or anything like that, but when you are used to not being represented, there's something about being with your people. That means a lot. It is. And it helps you to feel seen, normal, heard, understood, and. In other social settings where it's not understood and certain jokes and certain things. And there's actually this TikTok of this woman, um, who I follow and I think she's hilarious. She's a black woman and she talks about, um, you know, before you go somewhere. And I, I mean, I'll be honest, I do this as a Latina, the same like where you go somewhere and you wanna know like, okay. Before I go, or as soon as you get there, you look around to see if there's anybody else who looks like you. And you ask the question, oh, who gonna be there? Yeah. Who all gonna be there? And it's not just like, who's my friend? But you know, I've been out with, with, um, Uh, a friend of mine and her husband who's black and usually mm-hmm. they think that he's my husband to the point where I've had to just say, oh yeah, well this is my brother. Cuz then it makes sense that we're all here together cuz they don't get it otherwise. Like they've, he's, you know, he's, uh, he plays music. Yeah. So he'll play for me at gigs and she'll come to watch her husband play at the gig, which is great. Yeah. But then they're like, oh, is your husband like, no, this is my brother who plays keys for me because otherwise, How would you know? Anyway, that's the fun of San Antonio because, because we'll be the only two black folks in the room. Mm-hmm. and they don't understand how, uh, we are the two black folks and we're not married. Oh, your siblings. Oh, of course. It's so ridiculous. And I can say he's my brother in Christ. It's fine. Uh, no, you know, but it's frustrating anyway for people who are not. And I'm not gonna put minority because this is, let's do is a black history month's what I'm gonna say for the people who are not black, what do you want them to know? Or what would you say to somebody who you feel like doesn't understand black love and black home dynamics? Like all of those things. If they're going off of what they see in the media or all of those things, or for those ignorant guys who are sitting there saying, you're beautiful. Yeah. But. what, what would you wanna say? I want, so when it comes to, especially when it comes to the black family, I would want people to know, um, some of the honest statistics that black fathers are some of the best fathers, um mm-hmm. in the country when, when they're allowed to live and thrive. Mm-hmm. do everything for their freaking. But statistically speaking, okay, now you can't speak for everybody. Mm-hmm. because everybody up and down the color wheel. Um, can be trash. Um, but statistically speaking, black men read to their babies, black men be at the games. Mm-hmm. black men help build the things. Mm-hmm. go on the field trips, do the stuff, do the hair. Amen. Yes. Um, and so, so I want folks to know that the, the black family, is a strong thing and it is built on love and respect and, and it is built on, um, um, protection of each other. Mm-hmm. because we know, because we, because as a people, we know trauma, we as a people. Mm-hmm. Our love knows how to be a safe space. Hmm. That's beautiful. You know, and so I, I, I feel like it's very important for people who are looking at relationships, even if you see the most ghetto looking couple quote unquote ghetto looking couple, um, and you think whatever you wanna think about them, just know that for each of them, the other is probably home for each of them. Mm-hmm. the. Uh, has probab what, when we say ride or die, it's not because we're trying to be, you know what, what Jay-Z had the, uh, OG body, whatever he said, it's not, it's not that. Yeah. It's, it's not built in some stupid, um, bang, bang, shoot'em up mentality. It's built in. I know how dangerous this world is for black men. I know how, how hateful this world is to black women. And so at least at the very. in this space. This is. You know, and while I have not romantically, I'm not in relationship and I don't have that portion when it comes to my nephews, when it comes to my sisters, when it comes to my mother, my father, when it comes to my family, whatever, well say what you wanna say, but my love is protective, my love. Oh, I'm gonna cry. Mm-hmm. I will, I will do what I can to make sure they have whatever they need, and I will do what I can to make sure that nobody puts them in a box. Labels them the wrong way or whatever, what have you. And I feel like that's what folks should know, that there's, it's not just, um mm-hmm. you know, misogyny that's there. Misogynoir is real. Black men have a hard time with their skin and therefore a hard time with their women. But when you have black men who love black women, you have black women who love black men, you create black families that protect care for and love each other. That's what I want you to. I love it. For the record, I was super quiet because at first I was like, mm-hmm. yes. Mm-hmm. But I felt like I was getting too into it. So I, I didn't wanna overshadow, this is your story. No, I feel you. That was beautifully said, Deborah. Thank you. That was beautifully said. There are, there is, there is light. There is hope. Yes. And, you know, just, just for what it's worth, can I just tell folks Yeah. Because I'm, I'm late to the game. Uh. Very, very late to the game, but I just finished reading Beloved. Mm-hmm. um, by Tony Morrison. Girl. Yeah. I know you don't read for pleasure, but do it like, it's worth it. It's just, it's such a good, um, picture into trauma one, you know, I love that because it's, cuz it's, you know, it's all, it's all about, um, these folks who are just, uh, not even quite a generation removed from slavery. Like they, they, some of them came. From Plantation just got free. Yeah. So it's like freshly free, late 18 hundreds. Um, and then there's also just, just a lot about like culture and a lot about like, Where love kind of finds itself and it's that protection piece. You really kind of, you really it. Tony Morrison, man. Man, Yeah. That's a, it's a good book. Ooh. Well I think that that, I feel like there's so much more I want to talk about, so I wanna make sure that I give you this space and not put you in a box bit to be constrained by my. No. Do whatever. I'm down, so I'm just here. Yeah. So I mean, one, I'm, I'm glad to hear you say like exactly what's on your heart and what you want people to know. Mm-hmm. what would you say has been the biggest challenge for you as a black woman in the dating world? Oh, Sierra, do you have time always for you? Um, so so in the dating world, my Lord, first off, um, uh, My eyes were open by Aziza Sorry's book, modern Romance, about the statistics when it comes to dating and that Asian men and black women are the least chosen. of all the ethnicities in every dating app all the time. Wow. That black women are the least of everybody all the time. Wow. Um, that actually gave me a little like, oh, okay. So it's just, it's not like it's me, it's just us That's crazy. It's not just me. Yeah. It's a whole bunch of us. Um, and that, you know, I know statistically black women are the ones who tend to be degreed up. Um Mm. Ed. Highly educated, very professional, and very single. Um, and there's a lot of aunties. Yep. Uh, A lot of aunties, not a, not as many moms as, as you would expect. Yeah. I just feel like in, in relationships now, it's been hard for me to find someone, I think because ultimately nothing feels genuine on dating apps. Mm-hmm. And so even when, um, you know, I've started now kind of looking more primarily for black men cuz I wanna feel understood. on the, on the physical level, I wanna feel understood. Yeah, I don't, I understand that. I'm gonna have to explain who I am and get into the depths of my character with any person. Yeah. But physically you ought to understand my hair. You ought to understand, right. The lotion, things like that. On the just outside physical level, I want you to understand me. So I've started looking for black men, but as I've looked. I think what I keep finding, especially on these dating apps, is men who seem to be childish. Mm-hmm. um, men who seem to be, um, not really looking for a relationship yet, and um, ultimately, For every guy, black, white, whatever. Right? Men. I'm not finding real connection. I'm just finding a lot of, like, this is the cool thing I say to make a lot of advertising. Yeah. Feels like advertising. Hmm. Um, so dating is hard in general. And then when you add on the factor that a lot of these men don't wanna date a black woman, this is their first black woman. Uh, they kind of just wanna try it out. And, uh, you. see what it, what it feels like if the skin is darker, I guess. Yeah. It makes it difficult for me to even want to pursue it, you know? So dating currently is kind of like, eh hmm, I wish. And then, you know, like the last guy that I went on a couple dates with, it was nice, but I think I was mourning, I was grieving. I said that I just passed away. And so I think it just wasn't the right timing. And like I said, he was more excited to be there than I was. Yeah. Um, so eh just ain't, it just ain't hidden. Well sometimes it just doesn't and that's mm-hmm. I think that's like across the board. Yes. But the reasoning, I think the purpose of us kind of making, like what I'm hearing you point out is really because the reasoning is, To a black. Yeah. As opposed like, right. So cuz I know that we're gonna have people who are listening who are like, yeah, well I go through that too. Yeah. Not the same reason So, yeah, I wanna make that distinction because it's, it's, it's one thing if you're just not vibing, um, interested with each other, like that's fair right there. But when the vibe is not there, because. what they want is an experiment. Mm-hmm. what they want is, um, a roller coaster ride. You know, they wanna, they're, they're seeing, it's, it's one thing to, to both of you are, are encountering love and it's an adventure. Mm-hmm. that seems like a fun plan to me. Mm-hmm. It's another thing when this is more like a quick, um, you know, trip down. Let me. Um, yeah. Experimenting. If she, yeah, experimenting. Let me see. I would love for a black girl to, I don't know. It just, it, there's a, it's different. It's different. There's a, there's a level of like, I'm not dating for you, you No. Yeah. It's because it's not, it's not you. Right. The person is not saying, I am not feeling you, because part of the reason they're dating you is one, they like you for who you are, but then the other part of that is to see what it's like to be with people like you. Yes. And that's the thing is, is it you're there, they're. They wanna see people like me. Yeah. But they don't wanna see me. They want me to be like, the people who are they think are like me. Yes. You know what I mean? Like, they want me to be like, pick your, pick your black person on television, your favorite one. They hope I'm like that. Yeah. And if I, if I am similar to that person, yeah. That's a coincidence. It doesn't mean that we're. like that. Mm-hmm. Um, and your experience with me is not, you don't have yourself a at-home pocket version Right. Of the person you see on tv. Right. Um, and it just always, it does feel that way. Mm-hmm. whenever I'm on a dating app and there's some guys like, there's just, there's. you can feel it. Mm-hmm. When there's like an other world, there's, they're very excited, but it feels perverse like a kick because the excitement isn't because she's really beautiful and she's talking to me. It's because a black girl is talking to me. Yeah. Ew. You know, and it feels, it feels creepy like that. Yes. I hope that this is an effective conversation. I feel like we're talking about black love and I'm a single lady and so that's kind of hard, but you know, that's a huge thing I still have because. I still love. I have love. You still are. Listen, I think that you have a voice. I think that what you have experienced in the dating world, especially in this time in life and in society, it needs to be heard. Yeah. And I think too, you know, the, the, the voice. The educated single black woman in her thirties and early forties Yep. Is real. Um, we are all out here. Um, and, and, and we love Yes. Right. And here in this February where black folks do celebrate black love until the 13th, and then they switch to Valentine's Day and then go back to Black history months, um, you. And, and there is, there are elements, you know, I love my students. I love my family. Mm-hmm. I love my friends. I, I still have relationships that are worthy and, and, um, so I always think, I guess, I guess I wanna make sure that even though we're talking about black love, I can't all, I can't speak fully to romantic love. but I can speak it to familial, to, you know, philio, if you will, um, But I can those relationships, yes, I can speak to relationships in other, the other relationships in the world because there is more than just romantic. Um, so I just wanna make sure that for anyone who's listening, like she ain't even go with nobody. Okay. No, I'm not pray for. Stop playing with me. Um, and don't judge me because No, I love too. That's all. That's right. 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